Dr. John Meis
Hey everybody, welcome to this episode of The Double Your Production Podcast. I'm Dr. John Meis with my partner Wendy Briggs. Hey Wendy, how you doing?
Wendy Briggs
Hey, doing great, Dr. John. I'm excited about this podcast today. It's gonna be a good one.
Dr. John Meis
and with us today is Katie Jernigan. Katie is one of the hygiene coaches with us at The Team Training Institute. Hey Katie.
Katie Jernigan, RDH
Hi. Thank you for having me, Dr. John and Wendy both.
Dr. John Meis
You're sure welcome. So Wendy, why don't you why don't you kick us off and introduce the topic and what we're gonna be talking about today.
Wendy Briggs
Sure thing. Yeah. You know, every once in a while we grab one of our amazing world-class hygiene coaches and do a conversation on our podcast for a variety of reasons. I think it's really helpful for our members to get to know our coaches, certainly, but also there's always topics that we deal with on the hygiene coaching side that are of, you know, utmost interest to dentistry at large. And today we're gonna be talking about one of those topics. We're gonna be talking about motivating and inspiring hygienists to operate the top of their license, not at the bottom of their license, where maybe they have been relegated to be the cleaning crew or they they've landed in a prophy mill in one way or another and don't quite know how to to work their way out of it. So I thought we'd talk about that, you know, inspiring a higher level of performance on the hygiene side.
Dr. John Meis
I love it. And do you want to talk a little bit about what you mean by the at the top of their license rather than the bottom? Because that that's such a great concept. And when people hear it, they get it.
Wendy Briggs
Yeah, yeah. You know, and I didn't dive into too much detail initially because I'm sure we probably have discussed it at some point on the podcast, but it's been a minute. So it's a great reminder. You know, every professional that's licensed to do a job has a range of services they can provide in the context of that license. And hygiene is no different from that. I think, you know, when we really look at the role of a world-class dental hygienist in our world, we define them as preventive therapists, periodontal therapists, patient treatment advocates. And when you're operating at the top of your license, you understand those roles and you're maximizing everything that you're allowed to do in the scope of that license, which means you really do understand periodontal therapy. You're providing that care at the highest level, including adjunctive therapies like lasers and PerioStom and Arestin and Desiccation Therapy, maybe Guided Biofilm Therapy, whatever that may look like.
On the preventive side, you know, we're also offering preventive services at the highest level, partnering with our doctors on case acceptance. In our world, that means we're operating at the top of our license. We really are maximizing the opportunity that we have to provide world-class patient care. And the opposite of that would be some of what we're seeing, unfortunately, in dentistry in certain pockets of the world where we really aren't maximizing hygienes preventive therapists. I heard a doctor describe them as "fluff and buff" the other day. and I thought that was terrible, but also probably an appropriate description for how some practices may think of and use hygienists.
Katie Jernigan, RDH
You could say that. Yeah.
Dr. John Meis
Yeah.
Wendy Briggs
Yes. You know, shortened appointment times, cranking people through, get them in, get them out. There's really not a whole lot of thought about prevention or periodontal therapy. We're just, you know, relegating hygienists to be the cleaning crew, you know, that's really operating in my world at the bottom of the license. And so we'd love to encourage and inspire hygienists to reach for more than that.
Dr. John Meis
Yeah. And one of the things for someone to be considered to be hired as a hygiene coach for The Team Training Institute is they have to have already demonstrate that they're capable of of operating at the top of their license. They have years of experience. And so Katie, do you wanna just walk us a little bit through your story?
Katie Jernigan, RDH
Absolutely. I would love to. So my story started a little bit different than maybe some that you would think. I started my career in nursing and loved nursing. I knew that I loved patient care, but I found myself going into each hospital room whenever I was having a patient and I'd say, "Have you brushed your teeth today? When was the last time you brushed your teeth?" Because, as people know, when you go in the hospital, that's probably one of the first things to go. That's the last thing on people's minds. They're sick. They're not doing well. But what I found was after I provided oral care to that patient, helping them brush and floss and do some mouthwash, they felt a lot better. And I feel like if patients feel better, and that's one thing that that I can do for them, then that can help them get better and go home sooner.
I said, well, maybe I need to switch to dentistry. And ironically, I had an appointment for a teeth cleaning and I started talking with a hygienist about her job. And, let's just say, I met with my advisor and changed my major shortly after that. I knew that dental hygiene was my calling. So I'm so glad that I answered it. And I've always been fascinated by the oral-systemic link that you're now finding, that we're finding every single day. It seems like there's always a new systemic condition that's being related to what's going on in the mouth. So that's really my passion and absolutely love it.
Dr. John Meis
Yeah, fantastic. So as an in-the-trenches hygienist, you saw the position from one perspective, and now as a coach, you see it from another perspective. And now you see the doctor-hygiene interaction a little bit differently as a coach. So tell us a little bit about that.
Katie Jernigan, RDH
Yeah, that's a great question. So I think now as a coach, one of the most beautiful things is we see, you know, it's not necessarily the clinical skills that need or you know, that need adjusting. It it can be a mindset adjustment or the biggest thing is communication, the way that we communicate together within the team and the way that we set the doctor up for the exam and the handoff and educating the patients on what they need, whether that be preventative therapy, periodontal therapy, and restorative therapy as well, and how to have those tough conversations. Because it's that's the biggest challenge, I think. It's not the clinical thing. It's just how to navigate those difficult conversations to get the patients to understand why they need what they need.
Wendy Briggs
Yeah, you know, one thing that's interesting, Katie, I mean, I think I met you, you attended a two-day program that we had put on in Texas. And I think you were pretty new to hygiene, right? You were bright-eyed, but not that you still aren't, you're still full of zest and energy for dental hygiene, certainly, but it was fairly early on in your hygiene story. So maybe just tell our listeners about that a little bit.
You know, maybe what shifted in your mindset when you heard some of these services and the way we teach, you know, how to optimize and operate the top of your license. You know, what shifted, what changed in you for your journey going forward? And then now maybe how you bring some of that to the hygienists you're coaching.
Katie Jernigan, RDH
Absolutely. So yeah, I did, I met you. I was fresh out of school and I was really struggling how to have those difficult conversations with patients. I think sometimes when you're right out of school, you have so many clinical terms in your head and you just don't know how to communicate with patients why they need what they need. And at the same time, I never wanted to be viewed as a prophy mill. I never just wanted to be the cleaning crew. I really wanted patients to understand why they need the services that they need.
And I knew that The Team Training Institute was able to give me the tools to be able to be more and not just be the cleaning crew. And so I practiced that way my entire career. I've been a hygienist for 11 years. And never looked back. I never thought, I never wanted to seem like I was selling dentistry. I just wanted patients to know, "Hey, this is what I'm seeing. This is what's going on. There's something that we can do about this proactively. And are you interested in talking about that?"
And so thank you for for giving me the tools to have those higher level conversations and operate at the the top of my dental hygiene license. And as far as the coaching role goes, I'm excited to be able to to coach people how to do that now and and how to have those conversations effectively and the best way that we can and not be viewed as a tooth cleaner and a cleaning crew.
Dr. John Meis
Yeah. Awesome. When you're coaching practices, have you found that there's certain places where, are there common places where doctors and hygienists are not communicating well and are and are not interfacing well? What would be some of those most common areas?
Katie Jernigan, RDH
That is a a great question. I think the most common ones that I see is periodontal protocol. Sometimes practices aren't on the same page and that can be a difficult conversation to have. At the end of the day, this is the standard of care. And I think I think the biggest thing is coding, improper coding as well. And again, it's just it's not about the money, but I believe that whenever we treat our patients the way they're supposed to be treated, in the way that we would want to be treated, in the way that's best for them, then the money just follows.
So, but definitely trying to get the doctor and the hygienist on the same page. And I think honestly, just having the conversation openly and having someone have that run the run interference. You know, if you're a sports fan, people out there, then you understand what I'm talking about. Sometimes it's better to have a middleman to help have those conversations.
Wendy Briggs
Yeah, Katie, you know, one thing that you mentioned as well. The one of the things that we we've had multiple calls about, it seems like in the last few weeks and months, is doctors and hygienists can sometimes be on different wavelengths regarding compensation. And as a coach, those are questions that we actually handle. Those are the really difficult questions, right? That that we're asked to come into practices and solve. And I remember you telling me a story about how at one point, kind of near the end of, well, right before we connected and and we invited you to come and coach with us, you had mentioned that you landed in a practice where the doctor had really good intentions about some type of production-based compensation or incentive program, but it never really materialized. Maybe just share with our listeners some of the frustrations that you had about that and how that kind of took the wind out of your sails a little bit. Although I loved what you said when you told me the story. You're like, I still practiced hygiene the way I knew it. It should be practiced and I still serve my patients at the highest level, but it became a frustrating thing.
Katie Jernigan, RDH
Yeah, absolutely. I think that's a very common thing too. And especially as a hygienist, you get burned out. that's a real very real thing happening right now with hygiene. And there's it I think in turn there's a shortage. So yes, I attended an interview with this doctor and everything that we were talking about, I told him this is how I produce, this is how I treat patients, this is my standard of care. And he said, "Perfect. We're in alignment there." And he did mention that there would be an opportunity once he saw the proof in the pudding, if you will. She's talking the talk, but is she gonna walk the walk, right? And he said we'll reconvene, we'll reevaluate with the production-based compensation plan or an incentive. I said perfect. Amazing.
That was four and a half years of no production compensation. And, you're right. I remember saying it, it just took the wind out of my sails. I still practiced the way that I knew that patients deserve to be treated. I still made the recommendations. I still did the treatment with the root protection and sealants. And this was actually before Curadont was available. So I can only imagine what Curadont can do.
So, you're right. And that's a real thing. It does take the wind out of your cells. And it ultimately defeated me enough to where I left the practice 'cause someone did say, "Hey, I'll give you what you want and then some." So that's a real problem that we're dealing with these days.
Dr. John Meis
Sure. So we've always talked about the win-win-win philosophy. And that is the first and the very most important win is for the patient. And when we're operating at the top of our license, that's a win for the patient for sure. and it does create more revenue for the practice. So it's a win for the practice. And so we think that it makes sense for it to be a win for the team as well. And so when we talk about production-based compensation, that's what we're talking about.
And you know, some of the pushback that I hear from doctors are, gosh, hygiene wages have gone up so much. And how can we, you know, afford to have this production-based compensation on top? And the reality is, the formula that we use for determining that is it only comes from the growth, right? It doesn't come from what's happening right now, it comes from the growth, and the hygienists get up for a portion of it.
And the lawyer's share of it goes to the practice. And so it really is a win-win-win for everybody. And but we often have people that will make the promise or decide to put it in place and then to pull it back. And that's really what you're talking about. Something like it was promised and then never delivered on. And Wendy, what happens every time somebody pulls it back?
Wendy Briggs
Well, usually they have mutiny and desertion, right? So and frankly, almost always, you know, when they reach out to us for help, we're able to come up with a plan. We've got several formulas that we use that everybody's happy with. And if we do what we say we're gonna do, it always works out. You know, we have more than 20 years of data now where we can say, okay, here's what here's what the average was before we put this production-based comp plan in, here's what the average afterwards.
Was it more profitable for the practice? And it's always an emphatic yes. It's far more profitable for the practice. and we don't want, let me clarify as well, we don't want hygienists to demand more, but we'd love to give them an opportunity to earn more. We'd love to provide a structure where there's a return on effort. And I think, you know, most of us can get behind that, right? And so we always say whenever we're talking about compensation, like danger, danger, don't try this at home. There's certainly missteps that practices make.
There's a little minefield out there when it comes to this conversation. So we do help practices go about it carefully. And so I think that's really what I wanted to get out of Katie is you know, that's one of the things that as a coach, we deal with a lot. And we often run into most often well intentioned people that are trying to, you know, sweeten the pot or make things better for hygienist, make things better for the practice and the team, and help, you know, realize the growth that they can see is possible.
But if we don't have it set up just the right way, it can actually take us backwards. And that was your point, Dr. John. What happens when we don't do it? Well, we can actually, you know, lose our providers. And in this day and age, that's really, really problematic. But I would also have a cautionary tale for the providers themselves. Sometimes we have to be careful that, you know, what we're asking for is not sustainable.
In some circumstances, what the hygiene team wants is not sustainable over time. And ultimately, what happens there is the entire ship can go down. And we certainly don't want that. and there's a lot of misconceptions out there too. You know, we hear hygienists on social media forums say things like, dentists are just greedy, they want to keep it all for themselves. And that's just not true. We see that the cost, the operating cost of doing business is really, really high. There's a cash crunch, a cash squeeze right now.
And we often see very, very sad situations that are real world situations where dentists are very, very close to going under. You know, they haven't paid themselves in months and that's a side that a lot of the team doesn't see.
Dr. John Meis
That no, that's for sure. They see the charges, they see maybe the collections, they don't see the expenses. And the big one that they don't see is the debt, you know, all the debt payments. And so you know, it is a much more difficult business than people think. As evidenced by three of the top nine DSOs were taken over by their creditors because they couldn't pay their bills. Right. So it's not an easy business by any means. And just because of the position, hygienists don't necessarily see that.
Katie Jernigan, RDH
You're right. That's one of the things that surprised me the most, Dr. John. That was a great point. When I became a coach, I never really did see that side of it as a hygienist, but now as a coach, seeing that the dentist, like you said, it's heartbreaking whenever they can't pay their bills and then problems like that arise. It's disheartening.
Dr. John Meis
At least a couple times a month, we get a 911 call from somebody, and it's, they're all very similar. It's I'm not making any money and I have payroll in four days and I don't have the money to make it. It's just a repeating thing. Now, it doesn't have to be that way. And luckily those aren't our clients that are giving us calls like that. Those are people that are searching for an answer and are really in crisis.
But there is a there is an answer, and part of that is having, you know, a full complemented team that are highly motivated to do the right thing by patients.
Wendy Briggs
Yeah, and I would say too, you know, if you find yourself in that that situation, we have countless stories of people that have made it through to the other side and life is so much better on that other side. I would say too, another thing that I see that's tragic right now is we see a lot of high rates of depression, anxiety, and sadly suicides of dentists who from the outside looking in seem to have it all together. And it's really, really heartbreaking and tragic when we when we see that happen.
And again, it doesn't have to be that way. So that's why we love bringing on especially talented people like Katie to join our team and to help coach practices, providers, teams, systems on how things can be when everyone's aligned and driving together and we have these these vital systems in place. Production-based compensation is just one of those systems that can really make a difference. I would say as well, I don't want our listeners to get the idea that practices we work with are not successful.
I would say the practices that we work with, you know, often come to us because they've experienced a really high level of success and they don't know like what the next level looks like or how to break through maybe the ceiling they found themselves in. But what's wonderful about what we do is regardless of where you are on your journey, these systems can really help inspire a higher level of effectiveness, a higher level of performance. So whatever that looks like for you, you know, we just want you to be aware of how we help.
Dr. John Meis
Yep, yep. And what's really gratifying for me is when people will send us a picture of this is The Team Training Institute condo at the beach. this is the TTI River House. This is the TTI new Lamborghini, not Lamborghini, but Maserati and but when we see stuff like here's here's us on our TTI European vacation, and you know that's really gratifying 'cause I know the only way that you get there is by providing better service for patients and having a team that's unified in doing that. And if you do that part right, which is what we help people do, the rest takes care of itself.
Katie Jernigan, RDH
Yeah. I don't know if I can share this or not. But there is a but there is a hygienist that I have started coaching and she and I we we at the first meeting I I told her we just weren't connecting and and that's okay. But over the past couple of calls, she's really opened up. We have both had a beautiful relationship and I was just looking back at the numbers and I said, "Are you aware that you've doubled your production since you and I have started having these calls?" And it's really amazing to see because it was beautiful Wendy, you were talking about the world-class hygienist and being well-rounded in all three roles as a preventative therapist, periodontal therapist, and patient treatment advocate. And she really did a great job with perio, knocking it out of the park. And I said, Well, have you thought about this and this and each month if I brought something to h her attention, she brought she came back the next month and executed it and she's doubled her production. So it's incredible. And I love that. I love to see that.
Dr. John Meis
Yeah. You know, same basic patient pool and you doubled the production, which means you doubled the value that you provided for patients. That's so cool. And people don't believe it's possible, but we see it all the time. It idefinitely
Wendy Briggs
And it's true, you know, that's the name of the podcast, right? Because we see it happen time and time and time again. With the right structure, the right framework, the right systems, the right comp plan, these things amazingly can transform a practice.
Dr. John Meis
Yep, the right leadership and the right people. Yep, absolutely. Fantastic. All right. Well, Katie, thanks so much for hopping on. We appreciate your experience and you're such a great coach and you've done such a wonderful job connecting with the doctors and the hygienists that you work with. and we're really proud to have you as part of the team.
Katie Jernigan, RDH
well thank you so much and thank you for having me.
Dr. John Meis
So that's it for this episode of The Double Your Production Podcast. We'll see you next time. Thanks, everybody.
Wendy Briggs
Thanks everyone. Bye.
Katie Jernigan, RDH
Thank you. Bye.
