Wendy Briggs (00:01.038)
Hi everyone and welcome to this episode of The Double Your Production Podcast. I am your host, Wendy Briggs, and I am here with our amazing guest, not the first time guest, but a repeat guest because of her knowledge and brilliance, Heather Driscoll. Hi Heather.
Heather Driscoll (00:15.832)
Hi Wendy, thanks for having me back.
Wendy Briggs (00:18.452)
it's always awesome to have you. And when we got this request for a topic today, I thought there is no one better than our Heather to talk through this challenging topic. And can I tell you that it's one that comes up quite a lot. So I'm delighted that you're here and willing to share your wisdom with our listeners today. For our listeners, the topic that we're going be talking about is team harmony or lack of right? The challenges that can arise when we are leading a team full of individuals, right? Different people. So Heather, real quick, just give our listeners that may not be as familiar with your role, why you are so particularly good at this and how you were able to develop your skills and hone your skills in leading a team.
Heather Driscoll (01:04.409)
Sure. Well, I started in dentistry 23 years ago and I wish I could say that conflict wasn't always a thing, but it's not true. Wherever you have groups of people, you're always going to have opportunity for lack of alignment, lack of clarity, lack of harmony to use the word for our topic today. So I have had the great privilege of leading an individual dental team of about 12 people when I first started.
And certainly over the course of my career growing that practice to multiple locations and then ultimately joining Mortenson and Dental Partners when they had 45 locations. And over the course of my about seven years with them, we grew from 45 locations to 120 locations and about 2000 employees. And so sometimes I get asked, you know, was it easier at the 2000 employee mark as opposed to the 12?
And interestingly enough, the challenges are very similar. It doesn't really matter how many people you have or the number of locations. We're all trying to do the best we can to take care of our patients and to handle the challenges, external challenges, internal challenges. And with that comes the opportunity for a little bit of friction from time to time. One of the things I did quickly realize though was that dentistry is a business of people. So our patients are obviously people, our team members are people.
And so I went on a journey to actually become a certified leadership coach because I thought to be more effective in my role in operations, I really needed to understand how to interact with people on the most impactful level. And so I've spent a good portion of my career, probably the last decade, really studying and learning and understanding how to be a better support for the teams I lead and the teams they lead as well. That's a little bit about me and why I love this topic so much.
Wendy Briggs (03:01.932)
Yeah, I love that, Heather. It's so interesting to me to visit with other people that are also in the same role. You know, when we deal with conflict, it can be the most difficult part of our job. And I think, you know, dentistry is certainly not an easy profession. There's a lot of, you know, high skill, high pressure moments throughout the day. And what we often hear from doctors and frankly, team members themselves is that the most challenging part of their role, the thing that they don't enjoy about dentistry is those situations where we have conflict within the team, whether that's within the team or with patients, but most often it's within the team and learning how to work together and be more impactful at a higher level.
And one of the things that we know is that high performance teams really have figured out how to minimize the drama and minimize the conflict and really operate as a team, supporting one another and driving together, all rowing in the same direction, if you will, so that we can accomplish a lot more for our patients.
So let's take just a few minutes, Heather, and dig into how do we quickly overcome conflict that we know will happen, especially if we're in a phase of team development where we're actively growing, we're hiring new people, we're trying to onboard new people, and maybe they don't quite understand our culture or expectations yet. What are some ways that we can quickly minimize the drama or turn things around when we have those moments that no one enjoys?
Heather Driscoll (04:30.498)
Yeah, absolutely. And one of the things that you touched on was the need to have a culture, a clearly established culture. And so I think one of the greatest things we do at The Team Training Institute, and one of my favorite, and we do this specifically through our Executive GPS course and with our Blue Diamond membership, is really helping people get clear about what their foundation actually is. So whether that's helping to define or reestablish core values, really truly putting up the guardrails, I like to call them, for what good behavior looks like. And when we have that clarity within a practice, when we have the clarity of knowing this is who we are, this is what we do, this is why we do it, it's easier to create what we always call, and I think I got this from you, Wendy, the non-negotiables, right? So these are some of the non-negotiable, unaccepted behaviors. And when everybody understands with, that high level of clarity, what the foundation really is and what's expected.
I think it's more likely that people will self-manage and self-correct when things get a little bit crazy. But there's always going to be situations to your point that are a little bit higher stress that require maybe a little bit more intervention. And so that takes a different level of skill. One of the concepts that we teach is called the drama triangle.
And really it's about how to avoid the drama triangle and to make sure there isn't that, you know, very easy pattern of overhearing things, gossiping, repeating things, taking sides, you know, becoming a victim or a blamer, any of those kinds of things. So we teach the drama triangle in an effort to help people understand how to equip themselves so that they don't start a drama triangle, but also so that they don't become a part of a drama triangle. So it's really very much about understanding your individual role within the practice. Because whether you have a leadership title or not, we all have the responsibility of behaving like leaders because we're leading patients each day, we're leading ourselves, we're oftentimes leading each other. And understanding things like the drama triangle and how to avoid making a messy situation messier, it can be really, really helpful.
Wendy Briggs (06:52.514)
Yeah, so let's talk a little bit more about the drama triangle, Heather, because there might be some of our listeners that aren't really familiar with that concept. Let's say we have a typical situation where someone's frustrated or upset at what someone else in the team has done and they've gone to their leader, whether that's the doctor or the team leader or the office manager, with a complaint or a challenge or frustration. Let's talk through the, I guess, pieces of that drama triangle so that people can understand how to more effectively deal with conflict.
Heather Driscoll (07:22.71)
Yeah, so it typically looks exactly like you said, there's something that's happened. And because in healthcare, specifically dentistry, we're, we're nurturers, right? We're, we're often wired to kind of want to avoid conflict. And so it doesn't minimize the frustration of the situation, it just means we're really not equipped with how to handle it in the most productive way.
So usually, yeah, conflict arises, something happens that's frustrating, and instead of actually addressing it, head on in a very, you know, hopefully unemotional way with the two parties that are involved. Usually someone seeks out another person to either, you know, get validation of their concern or in hopes maybe of passing off the problem to someone else for resolution. And what happens is it really creates a dynamic where it's less likely for a positive outcome. So you have what we call the victim, know, someone who feels like they've been wronged, and they're looking to get someone on their side, right? Someone who can really help persecute the other person. And it just doesn't work out.
And so you then have this, you know, victim mentality that doesn't take a high level of ownership in their role in the issue that was frustrating to begin with. And then you have someone that, you know, they brought on board to help validate their point of view that may or may not actually have all the insight or first-hand information and really is just in a lot of ways trying to do their best to comfort the victim and trying to get resolution. But when they've inserted themselves or allowed themselves to be inserted, it just made the problem even worse.
And then you have the other person who was originally involved in the situation to begin with, who may or may not even be aware that frustration occurred. And so, they now have these two people coming to them or potentially the original victim stepping out and letting someone else step forward to handle. And again, it just leads to a lot of probably unnecessary strife.
Heather Driscoll (09:37.006)
So we challenge someone along the way. Usually it's that second person who's been approached by the victim. We challenge them to quickly try to step into the role of coach and really helping that original person understand this is going to be best resolved by the two of you talking it out. But that can be scary, that can be intimidating. So maybe the role of the coach is just to ask them, do you want me to be a sounding board for a minute so you can gather your thoughts before you go talk to the other person.
Or would you like to role play? Would you like to talk through what this conversation might look like? And oftentimes what happens is when that responsibility is put back on the original person to begin with, it helps them to get clarity. Is this really a problem that needs to be addressed? And oftentimes it isn't, right? It's just, gosh, I was frustrated in the moment, but I know the other person typically has really good intentions and that probably wasn't, you know, their motive. So a lot of times it helps just with resolution, just by talking it out.
Or it helps give them what I always call six seconds of courage where they just have to figure out what the first few words are. And then they do feel like they could be equipped to go talk to their teammate about why the situation was frustrating. What can we do better together moving forward? You know, knowing what we know now, what would we do different in the future? So it's hard to recognize in the moment because I think we all want to do well and we want to help our teammates but anytime you're not first hand part of a frustrating situation, always best to put on the hat of the coach.
Wendy Briggs (11:10.07)
Yeah, I love that. You mentioned earlier having stated core values. A lot of practices that we work with may have those stated core values, but they don't really lead with them. you know, in this type of circumstance, that's another thing that we often try and advise dental practices and their teams to do is actually use those core values as really guidelines for behavior, the guardrails that you mentioned earlier.
So for example, if you have a core value of teamwork, or you have a core value of excellence, this type of behavior is in direct conflict with those stated core values. So there's an opportunity to, as you're coaching that individual, explain why it's important that they go and have the conversation with the person directly. This behavior of backbiting or talking badly about one another really is in direct conflict with our core value of teamwork. We're supposed to be working and operating at a higher level as a team. So therefore it does make sense for you to try and work this out amongst yourselves. I think that's often a missed opportunity within practices. They have these core values, but they don't actually know how to use them as a behavioral guide with the team to minimize these petty situations or the drama triangle from occurring in the first place.
Heather Driscoll (12:22.978)
Yeah, and I love the fact that you referenced the behavior guide because to your point, even when there's stated core values, if we don't take the next step in really identifying, what exactly does teamwork look like? You and I may be somewhat aligned, but we may have specific behaviors in our mind that really truly reflect and represent that core value.
And so one of the things we encourage our clients to do is on a fairly regular basis, probably once a year or maybe every other year, doing a flip chart exercise where we really do post our core values. And then we get really specific and say, well, what exactly does integrity look like each day? How does that show up in the way we behave? Is that coming to the morning huddle on time? Is that making sure you don't leave until you've checked in with all of your teammates, whatever it is. Making sure that we get granular from the standpoint of not just having the stated core values, but what are the true behaviors that support this? And how would we know on any given day that we're truly living our values?
Wendy Briggs (13:30.284)
Yeah, I love that Heather, because it's often what's missing, right? Rules about how we deal with behavior. It's not uncommon for us to hear comments from key leaders that reach out to us in a confidential way, saying, hey, I'm really worried about the behavior of this individual, whether that's a doctor or a team leader or someone in the in the team. And it's really impacting our team retention, right? We seem to have a steady stream of turnover because of how this individual is treating the team and it creates stress and conflict and challenges, know, things like name calling or shouting or, you know, I guess talking down to people or losing your temper or snapping. Yeah.
We, had a retreat not too long ago. We talked about crucial conversations and how often, you know, people can deal with these frustrations in a place of silence. So it gets bottled up until it boils over into violence. You know, when we have circumstances like that happening, often when we really sit down and dig into why it's happening, it's because we don't have these rules or the behavioral guides, or we just haven't had conversations about what's acceptable when it comes to team conflict. And that can really help minimize stress for everybody on the team, but certainly it can help us retain our team because they feel more confident that they're valued and they're respected, you know, and not in a place where they're having to be worried about how they're gonna be treated by one, you know, individual on the team.
So these things really do become vital. And I would say, you know, often people say, you know, systems really don't have anything to do with team behavior, minimizing team drama or conflict, but they really do. You know, these are examples that really help us be better in this area.
Heather Driscoll (15:07.087)
Absolutely. No, it's so true. And oftentimes we think about processes and systems being completely separate to your point from the relational or the emotional side of teamwork. But it's the systems and processes that really keep us aligned. And there's a concept you've been a part of conversations where we've talked about the concept of what you promote. And so that avoidance or just kind of wishing and hoping change would happen with behavior, it's not a good strategy.
It's not an actual process because it sends a message that this is okay. And we're just not, you know, we're not naturally equipped as human beings to be able to deal with those situations. So having systems in place like, you know, personal development interviews or check-ins, those, you know, behavior ground rules, teamwork ground rules, all the things that we advocate our clients to do. Those really are the processes that create an environment for people to speak up and share. It's a process to help celebrate the behavior you want to see more of and an opportunity to coach on the behavior that may need a little bit of nudging and nurturing.
Wendy Briggs (16:22.594)
Yeah, I love that Heather. So let's do this. This is always fun. I'm going to give you a couple of what would you do scenarios. So you can wear your team leader hat. You're the team leader and the scenario that's happening in your practice. Okay. So we love these because they're very real situations and they happen often. Right. So, okay, here we go. How do you handle the hygienist versus assistance drama?
Heather Driscoll (16:28.417)
Okay, great.
Wendy Briggs (16:46.818)
Sterilization is always a thing. We don't really have space to separate hygiene and treatment sterilization. And we absolutely do have office cleaning assignments in place, but I get a lot of that's not fair and so-and-so isn't helping enough. We're a fairly small team, two hygienists and two assistants at my wit's end with the petty behavior. So there we go. What would you do in that circumstance?
Heather Driscoll (17:08.923)
Yeah. So first and foremost, I always like to make sure that I acknowledge everyone's perception is reality, right? So it doesn't necessarily, you know, do any good for me to try to advocate for one role over another because everyone's perception is truly the reality of what they're dealing with. So to avoid the drama triangles specifically, usually I like to just get the parties involved and let's first and foremost define what success looks like.
So it very well might be something really small, like at the end of the day, it seems like, you know, the feeling is no one's helping with sterilization. But it's just that part of the day. And so opening up the conversation of, you know, what would a successful day look like? There's only four of us. We're all working, you know, to do the best we can. You know, always, I can almost guarantee have the same aligned intentions and desire for positive outcomes, but we don't always have the same, you know, clear picture of what would make us feel good about that.
So first and foremost, in a perfect world, if each person had to write down what a successful day of sterilization looked like, what would that be? And you'd be surprised when you force people to get really clear about what would make them feel better about a situation, it's hard for them to do. It's actually probably working better than everybody thinks it is once we kind of hold our feet to the fire and get really clear about what success looks like.
And then from there, I always tell people, you know, we're going to work for progress, not perfection. It's not going to be perfect every single day, but we're, you know, can we all agree that we're going to commit to assuming we're all doing the best we can? And are there tips and tricks and things that we can do to make things flow better?
Always, I try to help people understand that most of the time when something isn't working, it's a process that needs to be improved. It's not a person that needs to be blamed. And so really stepping back and thinking through what part of our process is working, what part of our process isn't working so well, and moving forward, are there a couple of things that we could do different or better to make life easier for everybody?
Wendy Briggs (19:25.952)
I love that. That's such a good, good approach. You know, people do support what they help create. So asking for feedback in that moment creates a higher level of ownership going forward. Again, recognizing that a way that you can possibly tie it to core values. Let's say one of our core values is patient experience, right? And recognizing that if there are certain team members that maybe aren't able to help as much as sterilization. It could be that they're just really committed in that moment to providing a world-class patient experience. And it could be that the hygienist is running behind on sterile because they're doing some same-day dentistry to elevate the service we provide.
So I think that's also helpful to just talk about when the process isn't working, why isn't it working? Is it because we're going above and beyond and really living that value? So our teamwork value may seem as if it's taking a hit, but in reality, you know, that's when we need a higher level of teamwork. We need the other team members who maybe aren't doing same day or aren't busy with a patient to step up and help so that we can provide excellence on both of those values. So always opportunities.
Heather Driscoll (20:22.394)
Absolutely. Yep. And it's so funny how, you know, sometimes all it takes is just asking for help, right? It's like, we just assume that everybody knows when we need it most. And to your point, Wendy, maybe I'm not available because I am serving our patients to a higher level. And yet, I'm expecting everyone to just naturally know that, right? So communicating, making sure everyone knows, hey guys, I'm going to be a little bit because, you know, we're helping Mrs. Smith get that crown done today and working this in or what have you. It's just sometimes a little bit too easy to assume that we can, you know, someone can read our mind or know exactly what's happening, but, you know, really focusing on a higher level of communication and asking for help when you need it instead of just assuming people will know you need it.
Wendy Briggs (21:11.884)
Right. And the other thing too is if you're asking for help but never willing to give it, then that's going to cause some challenges as well. So, you know, we've got to be recognizing that what goes around does come around. And if you're willing to step across and help your teammates, they'll be willing to do the same for you in most cases. Right. But communication absolutely is a part of it. I think that's so critical. So here we go. Here's our second and last example.
Heather Driscoll (21:16.398)
Yes, definitely. Okay.
Wendy Briggs (21:37.07)
This is coming from a treatment coordinator. I'm a treatment coordinator for our office. We have an insurance coordinator and are currently training our hygiene coordinator. So a larger team, larger skill set. And one of the things that we really haven't talked about is how critical defined roles and responsibilities are. I think having defined roles and responsibilities really does help us minimize a lot of the drama.
Heather Driscoll (21:53.306)
Certainly.
Wendy Briggs (22:05.526)
But here's one that's interesting. Sometimes when I ask our insurance coordinator questions, she huffs and puffs and makes passive aggressive comments like I have my own things to do or I'm interrupted 20 times a day. How do you handle comments like that? Because for some reason it sends me into an immediate rage. Okay, so what would you do here?
Heather Driscoll (22:18.657)
Yes. Yeah, so again, you know, back to the core values, certainly, I don't know if I've ever met a dental team that teamwork wasn't a core value in some way, shape or form. And so I think you stated it really well, having those, you know, those dedicated roles, the clarity of roles. But sometimes, if you've never walked in the shoes of another role, it's very hard to have an appreciation for what each person is dealing with.
I think this is one of those times where I would encourage the person to have a real honest conversation. When, you know, when something causes you to have that kind of a reaction, I think it warrants, you know, addressing it. I oftentimes also think the person on the other end doesn't probably always have the awareness of how they're coming across. And so I never want to accuse, but I always want to equip people from the standpoint, "Are you willing, if this is that upsetting to you, are you willing to have a conversation with the person?" And helping them to be prepared to just share how it makes them feel. So maybe Wendy, you're the insurance coordinator and I'm the other person. And I might just say to you, "Wendy, do you have a few minutes? I'd like to talk to you about something."
And then of course, you may or may not say yes, judging off of what what the scenario describes. But then the first thing I'm going to I'm going to do is acknowledge that this is a hard conversation for me to have. So I'm going to say something to the effect of, "You know, Wendy, I've put a lot of thought into this. And this isn't an easy conversation for me to have. But I think it's important." Usually when you acknowledge something's hard, it naturally invokes a higher level of empathy from the other person, right? Because we don't want anything to be hard for anybody.
And so then I would probably go on to say, "You know, one of the things that I've noticed is when I approach you with questions, I get the feeling that sometimes you're really frustrated with me. Is there something I could do better or different? I understand how challenging it is to be interrupted. Are there certain times of the day, you know, that are harder for you to, you know, stop what you're doing?" Whatever it might be.
So again, we're going back to a process and not so much, you know, accusing Wendy of doing something that we just assume is her intent. So acknowledging the reality of the situation, but then quickly slipping into how can I help create a solution? Because it can't just be, I'm right and you're wrong, right? It needs to be how can we work together to move forward?
Wendy Briggs (25:08.758)
Yeah. And I love that too, because the whole point of it is not to attack or be right. You know, after that conversation, it is about how can we work better together? Like this is, this is important for all of us and nobody wants to be snapped at or nobody likes to be the recipient of a passive aggressive comment. And just like you said, there could be, you know, moments of true frustration. Like I'm really trying to get this job done.
Heather Driscoll (25:15.482)
Yes.
Wendy Briggs (25:33.524)
And I just can't get it done with all of these interruptions. So I think both people in that circumstance could be very, very valid. They could be really working through something challenging. And the only way it's going to get better is those conversations. Obviously, the last thing we can do is running to other people and saying, "Wendy's on another rant." Or, "I just can't with this individual's behavior." Because then it becomes an us versus them.
Heather Driscoll (25:53.784)
Yes.
Wendy Briggs (26:00.212)
And too often these things bubble up to the doctor and that creates a tremendous amount of mental energy drain from our doctors who are trying to do so many other things at a high level. Understanding team dynamics and how we minimize drama and conflict really is a critical part and it affects everybody on the team. It's not just those two people who are involved in that conflict in that moment.
Heather Driscoll (26:21.942)
It does. you know, I wish I would have learned this sooner in my career, but also people have different needs, right? And so I've worked with people who have a high need for socialization and interaction and other people who have a real desire to be a little bit isolated and, you know, uninterrupted. And so how do you create environments where everybody can have their needs met to some extent, but also be respectful of what it takes for everyone to be as productive as possible.
And I love the fact that you brought up how distracting these things can be because whether we can measure it or not, you absolutely can tell by some of the maybe less directly correlated indicators when a team is working harmoniously or not, right? So it's not about avoiding conflict altogether, it's about equipping ourselves to work through it because whenever you have the number of people we have and the situations in dental practices, there's always going to be the opportunity for confusion and lack of clarity and frustration. So it's not so much that we're trying to make sure it never happens, but how can we productively work through it so it doesn't become a distraction.
Wendy Briggs (27:39.518)
Absolutely. And as you mentioned before, a lot of the practices we work with are involved in a period of active growth. You know, they may have started with seven employees and now they've got more than 40. And the skills you need to lead teams as they're growing actively, it just really is different. It's radically different. So having a continual focus on leadership and development and skills development is one of the reasons that so many practices come to us for our guidance and our help and our support.
And certainly Heather, we so appreciate you being a valuable member of our team every year at your Office Manager Bootcamp. My guess is you're working through a lot of situations very similar to the ones that we worked on today because it's not something that goes away. And it is something that as human beings, it's part of our journey, continually working on and developing our own leadership skills so that we can be more effective in our roles is part of what we see happening every day, day in and day out at these world-class practices that we work with.
Well, another great conversation, Heather. I'm so grateful for your time and your expertise and your willingness to share with our listeners all of the insights that you've been able to share with them here today.
Heather Driscoll (28:44.984)
Well, thanks for having me, Wendy. As everyone knows, I absolutely love dentistry and really it's because of the people that are a part of dentistry and the great care that everybody provides. And so the easier we can make it on ourselves to perform at our highest, certainly, you know, that's what we're here for. It's why coaching is such a fulfilling opportunity for all of us. So thanks again for having me.
Wendy Briggs (29:08.49)
It was awesome. Awesome conversation. I'm sure our listeners loved every minute. Thanks again for joining us today, Heather. And thanks to all of you for joining us on this episode of The Double Your Production Podcast. We'll see you all next time.
